From dave at horsfall.org Fri Sep 3 08:10:38 2021 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 08:10:38 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? Message-ID: In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of their lives. What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes? -- Dave From tom.manos at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 09:40:13 2021 From: tom.manos at gmail.com (Tom Manos) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:40:13 -0400 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From 4.3BSD Quasijarus: $ cal 9 1752 > September 1752 > S M Tu W Th F S > 1 2 14 15 16 > 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 > 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Cheers! Tom ---- Tom Manos Vivat Jesus KO4ENQ On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 6:32 PM Dave Horsfall wrote: > In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting > (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of > their lives. > > What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes? > > -- Dave > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grog at lemis.com Fri Sep 3 09:40:58 2021 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 09:40:58 +1000 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> On Friday, 3 September 2021 at 8:10:38 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote: > In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting > (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of > their lives. > > What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes? Presumably the same as on yours: September 1752 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 I tried it on Apple and Linux box and got the same result, including trailing spaces. In each case the man page indicates a derivation from FreeBSD. The real question is when 259 years ago today was. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cym224 at gmail.com Fri Sep 3 10:03:20 2021 From: cym224 at gmail.com (Nemo Nusquam) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 20:03:20 -0400 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> References: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> Message-ID: <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> On 2021-09-02 19:40, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 3 September 2021 at 8:10:38 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote: >> In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting >> (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of >> their lives. My understanding for the revolt -- though I cannot think of a reference offhand -- was that landlords charged a full month's rent for the reduced month. >> What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes? > Presumably the same as on yours: > > September 1752 > Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa > 1 2 14 15 16 > 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 > 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 > > I tried it on Apple and Linux box and got the same result, including > trailing spaces. In each case the man page indicates a derivation > from FreeBSD. Same on Solaris 10 with the following excerpt from the man page. NOTES      An unusual calendar is printed for September 1752.  That  is      the  month  11 days were skipped to make up for lack of leap      year adjustments. To see this calendar, type:      cal 9 1752 N. > The real question is when 259 years ago today was. Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29. N. > Greg > -- > Sent from my desktop computer. > Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php > > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Fri Sep 3 10:54:50 2021 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 18:54:50 -0600 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> References: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/2/21 6:03 PM, Nemo Nusquam wrote: > Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29. A friend was born on February 29th. She's both X and X ÷ 4 years old. It's usually worth a chuckle. I make a point to wish her a happy birthday on February 28th three out of four years. The forth year, I'm lazy and delay by a day. }:-) -- Grant. . . . unix || die -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4013 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From grog at lemis.com Fri Sep 3 10:58:47 2021 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:58:47 +1000 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> References: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20210903005847.GD60245@eureka.lemis.com> On Thursday, 2 September 2021 at 20:03:20 -0400, Nemo Nusquam wrote: > On 2021-09-02 19:40, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> On Friday, 3 September 2021 at 8:10:38 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote: >>> In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting >>> (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of >>> their lives. > > My understanding for the revolt -- though I cannot think of a reference > offhand -- was that landlords charged a full month's rent for the > reduced month. Hmm. I thought it was because the tax was paid in kind, and the change meant that they were due before the harvest was done. But it seems that we're all wrong: the riots probably never happened. The normal taxes weren't affected. Before the change, the tax year ended on Lady Day (25 March), but this was changed to 5 April, still the case today. And interestingly, it seems that before the change the calendar year also changed on Lady Day, so 24 March 1750 was followed by 25 March 1751. This, too, was changed. More at https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Give-us-our-eleven-days/ and of course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_(New_Style)_Act_1750 Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: From grog at lemis.com Fri Sep 3 11:10:07 2021 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 11:10:07 +1000 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20210903011007.GE60245@eureka.lemis.com> On Thursday, 2 September 2021 at 18:54:50 -0600, COFF wrote: > On 9/2/21 6:03 PM, Nemo Nusquam wrote: >> Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29. > > A friend was born on February 29th. She's both X and X ÷ 4 years old. > It's usually worth a chuckle. I make a point to wish her a happy > birthday on February 28th three out of four years. The forth year, I'm > lazy and delay by a day. }:-) I have been married twice. First wife was born on 28 February on a leap year, second wife on 1 March 3 years earlier. We can't agree on the age difference. The other reference, of course, is Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates of Penzance", where Frederic, the hero, was born on 29 February 1860 and apprenticed to a band of pirates until his 21st birthday (a paradox: 29 February 1940). Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 163 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at horsfall.org Fri Sep 3 14:47:56 2021 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 14:47:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> References: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, Nemo Nusquam wrote: >> The real question is when 259 years ago today was. > > Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29. Along with the non-leap year centuries :-) I've seen a lot of programs that get that wrong. -- Dave From dave at horsfall.org Fri Sep 3 14:58:56 2021 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 14:58:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: <20210903011007.GE60245@eureka.lemis.com> References: <20210902234058.GC60245@eureka.lemis.com> <7f5e0f44-3798-5913-a209-36ff3f9c358d@gmail.com> <20210903011007.GE60245@eureka.lemis.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Sep 2021, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > The other reference, of course, is Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates > of Penzance", where Frederic, the hero, was born on 29 February 1860 and > apprenticed to a band of pirates until his 21st birthday (a paradox: 29 > February 1940). Yes, that one is a classic; he could only celebrate his 21st every 4 years... -- Dave From tih at hamartun.priv.no Fri Sep 3 19:28:07 2021 From: tih at hamartun.priv.no (Tom Ivar Helbekkmo) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2021 11:28:07 +0200 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: (Dave Horsfall's message of "Fri, 3 Sep 2021 08:10:38 +1000") References: Message-ID: Dave Horsfall writes: > In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, [...] Speak for yourself! :) England transitioned in 1752, as you say, but here in Norway, we made that change in 1700, skipping from February 18th to March 1st. Other countries changed at other times - Russia as late as 1918. The funniest transition was done by Sweden, though. They decided to transition over a period of forty years, by skipping leap days. They dropped the leap day in 1700, then forgot to do it in 1704 and 1708, gave up and went back to the Julian calendar in 1711, and stayed with that until 1753, when February 17th was followed by March 1st. -tih -- Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the significance of Lisp. Lisp is the most important idea in computer science. --Alan Kay From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu Fri Sep 3 23:06:09 2021 From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 09:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? Message-ID: <20210903130609.939BF18C0B8@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Dave Horsfall > What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes? Given that the source: https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V6/usr/source/s1/cal.c has been in C since at least V6, I'd be rather surprised if on other machines it did anything other than what those of us who were paying attention read in the documentation: https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V6/usr/man/man6/cal.6 back then: "Try September 1752." Get off my lawn. Noel PS: Said documentation already notes that it won't work in most counries: "The calendar produced is that for England and her colonies." For more fun with calendates, check out the Japanese Lunar-Solar Calendar: http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/prints/calendar.html From thomas.paulsen at firemail.de Sun Sep 5 00:03:22 2021 From: thomas.paulsen at firemail.de (Thomas Paulsen) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2021 16:03:22 +0200 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75d0d0f3268f829748e6baad8147e0cb@firemail.de> cal 9 1752 September 1752 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 From dot at dotat.at Wed Sep 8 20:24:17 2021 From: dot at dotat.at (Tony Finch) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:24:17 +0100 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF wrote: > > The funniest transition was done by Sweden, though. They decided to > transition over a period of forty years, by skipping leap days. They > dropped the leap day in 1700, then forgot to do it in 1704 and 1708, > gave up and went back to the Julian calendar in 1711, and stayed with > that until 1753, when February 17th was followed by March 1st. It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped in 1700; this extra day became February 30th. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30 Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch https://dotat.at/ Great Orme Head to the Mull of Galloway: East or southeast, becoming cyclonic, 3 to 5, then variable 3 or less later. Smooth, occasionally slight. Showers, perhaps thundery later. Moderate or good, occasionally poor later. From dave at horsfall.org Wed Sep 8 23:25:24 2021 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 23:25:24 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, Tony Finch wrote: > It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian > calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped in > 1700; this extra day became February 30th. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30 Oh, my sainted aunt... -- Dave From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Sep 9 06:36:26 2021 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 14:36:26 -0600 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 7:25 AM Dave Horsfall wrote: > On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, Tony Finch wrote: > > > It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian > > calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped > in > > 1700; this extra day became February 30th. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30 > > Oh, my sainted aunt... > This is the example I give to people who say calendars are easy... Also, I use it in my screeds against the current observational nature of leap seconds. Warner -- Dave > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athornton at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 08:52:28 2021 From: athornton at gmail.com (Adam Thornton) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 15:52:28 -0700 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, leap seconds. I work for an observatory. Some things are in TAI and some are in UTC. At least now I know what to look for when something is 37 seconds off. Adam > On Sep 8, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 7:25 AM Dave Horsfall > wrote: > On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, Tony Finch wrote: > > > It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian > > calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped in > > 1700; this extra day became February 30th. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30 > > Oh, my sainted aunt... > > This is the example I give to people who say calendars are easy... > > Also, I use it in my screeds against the current observational nature of leap seconds. > > Warner > > -- Dave > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at horsfall.org Thu Sep 9 11:22:49 2021 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 11:22:49 +1000 (EST) Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? (fwd) Message-ID: > Ah, leap seconds.  I work for an observatory.  Some things are in TAI > and some are in UTC.  At least now I know what to look for when > something is 37 seconds off. Isn't about that the transit of the Moon or something? -- Dave From athornton at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 11:34:04 2021 From: athornton at gmail.com (Adam Thornton) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 18:34:04 -0700 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just variation of Earth’s rotational speed over time, AFAIK. http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm -- TAI is SI second ticks, UTC is corrected to rotation by leap seconds. Currently they are 37 seconds apart. Adam On Sep 8, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: Ah, leap seconds. I work for an observatory. Some things are in TAI and some are in UTC. At least now I know what to look for when something is 37 seconds off. Isn't about that the transit of the Moon or something? -- Dave_______________________________________________ COFF mailing list COFF at minnie.tuhs.org https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Sep 9 11:47:36 2021 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 19:47:36 -0600 Subject: [COFF] What does your "cal" show? (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 7:34 PM Adam Thornton wrote: > Just variation of Earth’s rotational speed over time, AFAIK. > > http://leapsecond.com/java/gpsclock.htm -- TAI is SI second ticks, UTC is > corrected to rotation by leap seconds. Currently they are 37 seconds apart. > UTC is also SI seconds with an extra second inserted so celestial mean noon doesn't drift. It's irregular as to when based on the irregular wobble of the earth. Warner Adam > > On Sep 8, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > Ah, leap seconds. I work for an observatory. Some things are in TAI and > some are in UTC. At least now I know what to look for when something is 37 > seconds off. > > > Isn't about that the transit of the Moon or something? > > -- Dave_______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > > > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF at minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cym224 at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 03:49:03 2021 From: cym224 at gmail.com (Nemo Nusquam) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 13:49:03 -0400 Subject: [COFF] Charles Moore's Birthday In-Reply-To: <87fsudr6p2.fsf@nightsong.com> References: <87fsudr6p2.fsf@nightsong.com> Message-ID: Dave, No message about Charles Moore? N. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: Chuck;'s Birthday Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 10:37:29 -0700 From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Jurgen Pitaske writes: > It is Chuck Moore's 83rd birthday today. > You might want to send some greetings, > here a link to his facebook - or you might have his email address > .https://www.facebook.com/charleshavicemoore Happy 83rd birthday Chuck! Or perhaps I should say: 83 birthday Chuck happy